WELL I HAVE TO PUT THIS SOMEWHERE, might as well vomit up my feels here then.  SPOILERS FOR GAME OF THRONES SEASON THREE FINALE under the cut.

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I’m going to preface this post with a couple of things:   a) I apologize for the length of this but I’ve hardly been posting much lately so you’re still getting the better end of the deal, re: my usual amount of space on your dashes/in your tags and b) a clarification that this is not aimed at anyone in particular, but at a general attitude in fandom lately.  Also, clearly, this is personal experience.  I’m not speaking for you, I’m speaking for me and my views/opinions.  If you’re not interested in a lot of Loki Feels and my strong opinions on how to approach fanning the character, START SCROLLING NOW.

I have this really weird frustration/objection to fandom using the name “Loki Laufeyson” in reference to the movies.  (I see it A LOT in fanart/gifsets especially.)  Like, I won’t be surprised if Thor 2 goes there?  Or if I missed something in the movies/official info?  Because, yes, 616 Loki is “Laufeyson”, but 616 =/= MCU.  And this assumed, default idea that that’s the name Loki takes for himself kind of bothers me because, what are we basing this on?  When Loki introduces himself, he does so as “Loki of Asgard”!   The only thing you can really point to is Thor’s “Our father—” and Loki interrupting him and saying, “YOUR father.” but that’s a far cry from calling himself Laufeyson.  Loki HAAAAATES being Jotunn, that’s part of why he tried to destroy Jotunheim, why would he take Laufey’s name?  (Also, I hate it when fandom assumes that Loki’s been disowned, because I don’t think he has—Thor says “our father” like he’s still Loki Odinson in their eyes.)(p.s.  This is entirely different from those who give a reason for him to take the name!  I am totally fine with that!)(And if the MCU does go with that without giving us a reason for it?  Soooo many tables I’m going to flip.)

Speaking of Loki feels!  I had a conversation the other day that really put a lot of my feelings into clarity about how I approach Loki’s character, especially with how frustrated I get at fandom telling me that I’m only allowed to fan the character as an insane villain, that seeing anything else in him or wanting more for him is Doing It Wrong and that I’m woobifying him in a gross way or whatever.  I suspect this attitude has come up A LOT more often lately because of the Avengers gag reel and how adorable Tom Hiddleston is in it.  Or else I’m just getting fed up with it.  Whatever the reason!

Because, honestly, I don’t think Loki enjoys being a villain.  I think he’s fucking miserable being a villain!  This doesn’t negate that he does horrible things, that he’s arrogant and hurting people, that he’s responsible for a lot of bad shit, that he’s lost a whole lot of his grip on reality.

But the idea that Loki isn’t capable of redemption doesn’t strike me as being right, because the only villains that aren’t capable of redemption are those that truly enjoy being a villain, those who truly enjoy hurting people, those who have no heart left.  And Loki is all about still having a heart, because it’s so, so heartbroken.  Tom Hiddleston says it over and over in interviews—underneath all the pain and the rage, Loki is heartbroken!  He wants Loki to have all the hugs!  (And therapy.  Sooooooo much therapy, Loki needs.)

Loki doesn’t show much empathy in the movie (and we can debate about why that is, if he doesn’t have any or if he’s pushing himself to not care because he’s so wrapped up in his own pain), but neither does he actively enjoy hurting people.  We never see him hurting anyone just because or enjoying it.  He never hurts Clint or Selvig while they’re under his control.  Even when he smiles in Stuttgart as he rips that eye out, it’s not because he’s hurting someone, it’s because he looks up at the chaos he’s causing and the plan that he’s putting into action—he’s putting on his game face.  The entire point of that scene he caused was to distract away from his real mission, so of course he puts on the wide grin and smirk and plays the role he’s chosen for himself.  (There’s a lot of wiggle room for how much he enjoys being dangerous, how much he enjoys that the humans fear him and run from how terrifying he is, but I will still argue that the movie spelled it out for us—Clint needed a distraction, Loki provided it.  It was all about a plan to get on the helicarrier to release the Hulk and bring it all crashing down.  That meant getting their attention.  That meant causing a scene.  That meant doing it in a way that would get their attention.  It’s all part of a specific plan.)

And then Thor shows up.  And Loki can’t keep that manic smile on his face, no matter how hard he tries.  He can’t keep his real feelings from pouring out of him.  And those real feelings are that he’s miserable like this, he’s not enjoying this at all.  In every scene he has with Thor, there’s a moment where you see Loki’s mask breaking apart and we see the real him underneath, we see him constantly pushing himself in his resolve, constantly see him trying to prove to Thor that he is truly committed to this.  Even when he drops Thor out of the helicarrier, even when he does it to prove that he can, afterwards?  That is not the look of someone satisfied with themselves.  That is not the look of someone who enjoys being a villain.

In a conversation the other day, I wound up comparing him to Seishirou from X/Tokyo Babylon, and realized how… Seishirou and Loki are completely different types of villains!  One is a sociopath who pretty much amused himself by torturing the one he was obsessed with, the other is a heartbroken asshole who can’t keep his shit together when confronted with genuine emotion and shows us how miserable he is like this.  One of them can’t help crying constantly because he is so mixed-up and full of this violent storm of emotions that he’s trying so hard to master and it’s just so fucking hard for him.

It’s not a far stretch to want better for Loki, who has had slights against him.  Just because his reactions to those slights and being ignored are way, way over the top, that doesn’t mean that the slights against him should be ignored.  Thor calls them imaginary, but I don’t think Thor realizes just how hard Asgard was on Loki.  And both sides of that should be acknowledged if they ever want to repair their relationship with Loki!  Loki’s actions ARE NOT OKAY, he needs to be genuinely sorry for them, he needs to walk a long road back towards redemption, but that doesn’t wipe away that people treated him terribly, too.  One really doesn’t negate the other!  He’s not a victim, but that doesn’t mean that there was nothing wrong in his situation, either!  It’s not just one extreme or the other, honestly.  There are things in his character that are very, very easy for a lot of people to empathize with.

With the vast majority of redeemed!Loki fans (this is setting aside all the cutesy fanart, which isn’t meant to be taken seriously most of the time anyway!), it’s not about setting aside that he did terrible, villainous things.  It’s about Loki finding acceptance for himself within his own heart and working to move on to something better.  He’s not an inherent villain.  MCU!Loki still has so much potential for good in him, to find a place for himself maybe on Midgard, where they react better to cunning and efficiency and intelligence, rather than pure brute strength all the time.  It’s not a far step, given how we see Loki take a look around on top of Stark Tower and have a moment of hesitation.  It’s not a far step, given how hard Loki is pushing himself to do these villainous things (because he’s decided that the way to prove he’s to be taken seriously, that he’s Thor’s equal, is to be as dark a shadow as Thor is bright).  It’s not a far step to imagine, if he could make peace with what/who he is and if his family could understand him better, that he could be capable of great things again.

It’s not a far step to imagine, when Loki’s smirking and slyness are the result of him donning a mask to play the part of that kind of villain, so that his master plan will keep running smoothly.  It’s not a far step to imagine when Tom Hiddleston has said more than once that Loki still loves Thor.

That’s not to say that everyone has to be interested in redeemed!Loki.  It’s totally cool if people want to fan over the character as a villain!

But stop telling me that I’m Doing It Wrong for seeing potential for redemption in his character because, no, I’m basing my feelings off the movie and, no, I’m not trying to wipe away what Loki did.  But treating him like he’s evil or just straight up punishing him isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference to him, it’s only going to make him worse.  Actually talking to Loki, actually understanding him and acknowleding both good and bad in him, having him take responsibility for his actions, that’s a much better path.  And it’s okay for me to want that, especially in fandom.

I’m not saying that there isn’t a huge difference between having potential for redemption and actually setting foot onto that road, much less having walked down it, because there is.  Nor am I saying that Loki didn’t way, waaaaay go off the deep end and there’s a whole lot of shit he has to work through, at best.  But I’m not thrilled with being treated like I’m Doing It Wrong for seeing the potential there, that I’m not taking the character as he actually is when I do so.

(p.s. This is all setting aside how, hey, it’d be nice if we could stop trying to force one of the few characters that fandom routinely embraces as trans* to be a villain all the time.)
(p.p.s.  Someday, I am going to write a ridiculously long post about Loki’s trying to measure himself against Thor is, like, the worst decision ever because LOKI IS NOT THOR and trying to prove that he’s Thor’s equal by using Thor as a measuring stick?  Doomed to bad things!!)

Oh, hey, so over the last week, I’ve seen a handful of movies (OMG BRAVE I BAWLED MY WAY THROUGH THAT SO GOOD) and that means I’ve also seen a bunch of trailers.  There are two that I’ve seen that I especially wanted to crab about.

Warning:  I am super tetchy about both of them!

MAN OF STEEL:  Okay, whatever, we get yet another Superman movie to add to the collection of Batman movies and I’m not begrudging these characters their movies.  I’ll probably see Man of Steel.  But, man, it looks so dark and depressing, I had absolutely no idea that this was going to be a Superman movie until the end of the trailer and then I was like, “….really? You’re making a SUPERMAN movie that’s all grimdark?  Not that I mind grimdark things, but doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of Superman?”  Ugh.  And still no Wonder Woman movie.  Like, I realize that it’s got legal issues and hoops to jump through or whatever.  But the fact that DC doesn’t exactly seem to be trying very hard bums me out.

OZ:  THE GREAT AND POWERFUL:  BLEH.  This movie can fuck off for all I care.  I don’t even care if it’s the most brilliantly written movie ever (which, if the trailer is anything to judge by, that’s not something I need to worry about), every time I see this trailer, I make the a kind of disgusted face at the screen.  Yes, that’s exactly what we need.  To take one of the classic stories that has a lead female character, a classic female lead, and go, hm, let’s make an unnecessary derivative of this—except, let’s make the main character a man instead!  Do not want.  Especially with the whole, “Are you not the great man we’ve been waiting for?” bit.  Gross and BLEH.

I’m an IchiRuki fan and I’m sorry that portion of the fandom has been terrible to IchiHime fans! I do think it’s a little unfair to say that IchiRuki fans are getting it because of bias in the anime; I’ve only seen about two episodes and started reading the manga first. You’re dead on about het pairings and wanting to see things become canon; I think I always approached IchiRuki more like I do m/m pairings - it’s the dynamic that works for me and I don’t worry too much about what’s really canon.

And I’m sorry that we’ve allhad to deal with people we’ve wanted to kick out of our fandoms because we’re embarrassed by them!  I mean, if nothing else, it’s frustrating to have those people around because HEY QUIT TURNING PEOPLE OFF THE THING I LIKE SO MUCH.  D:<

I don’t think the anime is the only reason that IchiRuki fans are getting it or even that all IchiRuki fans are being biased by it.  Even before the anime ever started, way back when the fandom was actually really tiny and I had to search everywhere for any kind of fic, IchiRuki was still the most popular pairing!  A lot of people naturally gravitate towards the kind of dynamic they have and I can’t say I haven’t shipped a whole lot of those pairings myself!  But I have noticed that a greater percentage of those that started with the anime are baffled that anyone would think IchiRuki wasn’t going to be canon (or they did back before the HM arc put the IchiHime interaction more towards the forefront, now I think more people understand, they just really, intensely disagree XD), so I do think it’s a contributing factor with a lot of fans.  Not all of them, by any means!

Nor am I saying that I don’t understand where people are getting IchiRuki from when it comes to the manga—loads of people default to the manga or read the manga first/only read the manga and still ship IchiRuki hardcore.  But I do think the anime biased a good chunk of the fandom and it’s one more thing that makes the whole fandom more complicated.  And, of course, it’s not an inherently bad thing that the anime influenced people!  I mean, sure, it makes me sad and sometimes tetchy, but would I feel the same way if the anime changed the pacing/focus to give me something I wanted instead?  Almost assuredly not.  XD

And I’m glad that you’re happy just shipping what you like, not worrying about what will or won’t be canon.  It’s a really nice place to be!  I can get there often enough that it’s a joy when I do, because I ship what I want, it doesn’t matter where canon goes, because I’m happy with my fandom, it’s all good.  So much happier to be in that place!  And you’re super sweet to be so nice about it and I hope I can be at least half as lovely back to you and I hope that you always enjoy the fandom and have a lot of the fic/art/etc. that you want!

what do you think about ichiruki?

For the most part, I like to think I’m pretty live and let live about IchiRuki, that I wish I could share in the fun of it (because it gets a lot of fannish attention and it’d be nice to have still yet more fic/art to consume), and I see where fans of the pairing are coming from!  But, personally, it’s just not my ship.

A lot of it is that I’m into Bleach for Orihime, so any pairing that ships away from her or even just without her is going to be a tough sell for me.  Especially one with Ichigo, because IchiHime is my hardcore OTP with the fandom and her feelings for him are such an important part of her story.  But mostly I’m just totally here for Orihime.  (Hence you’ll see me ship most Orihime pairings, because, ahhhhh, I love her so much—!!  But I’ve pretty much whittled my Ichigo shipping down to just IchiHime and the occasional IchiTatsu.)

But a lot of it is also the terrible behavior of a portion of the IchiRuki fandom.  I know it’s not fair to paint an entire fandom with the same brush, which I don’t think I’m doing, because I have a lot of friends who are IchiRuki fans and they are perfectly lovely people.  If they get awesome fic/art or if they get awesome moments in the canon, then I can be satisfied enough knowing that they’ll be overjoyed.  But that very vocal portion of fandom that behaved terrible did kill any lingering interest I might have had in them as a romantic ship.  It’s the same for UlquiHime—I want so badly to be interested in that pairing and I occasionally do find the fanart for it really beautiful and I’m happy to do requests for it, but it’ll never be in my heart because of the bad behavior of part of the fandom.  (But I’m happy for the lovely people I know that ship it!)

I realize this is kind of getting away from IchiRuki, apologies!  And I don’t want to spend the entire time badmouthing the ship, because, hey, I’d be totally annoyed if someone did that with IchiHime even when asked about it and if they tried to be as respectful as they could!

As far as IchiRuki in canon goes… I don’t think it’s meant to be romantic (KT has directly said as much, that it’s not a romantic relationship), I think the manga is either going to make IchiHime canon or implied canon or else not imply anything at all.  I’m willing to eat my words if I’m wrong about that, but I don’t think I am.  And I do think a lot of fans probably got the idea that IchiRuki was meant to be canon because they started with the anime, which downloaded so many of the IchiHime moments that were important early on, sometimes even outright cutting important moments instead of just changing the pacing/focus, as well as majorly upped the IchiRuki interaction and undercurrents.  I think the anime assumed that’s what was going to happen or that they just really liked that ship, so they played it up, while downplaying other ships, and that changed a lot of subtle but important things about the manga’s dynamics and, well, here we all are in the wankfest of a fandom.

(And I think fandom gets extra wanky with het pairings because we’re all just SO DAMN SURE our pairing is going to be OMG CANON, whereas with m/m or f/f pairings, we all kind of know that we’re shipping something that’s not going to happen.)(Which blows and it SHOULD happen more often, getting a variety of types of pairings, but that’s a separate topic.)

thescentofwhiteroses:

OH GODDAMMIT I KNOW

NOTHING ELSE WILL MAKE SENSE TO ME NOW

and Thor 2 is probably going to destroy all of this and then I’ll have to go cry. A lot.

And write more fanfiction.

Because this just… it’s so LOKI for this to have been his real motivations.  I mean there was something Tom said in an interview about how Loki’s made some very shady deals with some shady people, and something about the way he said it implied that they were deals Loki wanted out of but now was stuck in.

Loki’s NOT a diva.  He’s a manipulate from the shadows type.  I’m still going to hold onto the fact that yes, he is more than a little bit crazy, but being crazy didn’t make him stupid, and damn would his ‘plan’ in Avengers be stupid as fuck if you took it at face value.  But with this theory applied to it… well it makes SO much more sense.

The movie made it pretty obvious that Loki was planning everything out.  But then it’s awfully inconvenient that he was out of commission while they were destroying the Chitauri army and closing the portal.  Not that he wanted to get Hulk smashed, he obviously underestimated the Hulk severely.  But he didn’t really TRY to fight the Hulk either.  I mean… shouting at the Hulk doesn’t work for anybody else… why would Loki think that it would work for him?

But anybody watching him (like the Chitauri and the Other) it would just seem like he’s being all megalomaniac like again and lost his temper… not like he’s letting himself get beat up so he has an excuse to not stop Natasha who is RIGHT FUCKING ABOVE HIM WITH ALL THE TOOLS AND KNOWLEDGE NECESSARY TO CLOSE THE PORTAL.

Because I am now convinced that he knew Selvig had built in a safety to cut the power to the Tesseract.  And he left his scepter rather carelessly on the tower when he escaped from Thor.  Or perhaps purposefully.  It seems really unlike Loki to not just grab it real quick as he rolls off the edge.  I mean it’s never not in his hand up to this point in time in the movie except when he lets himself get captured and therefore it’s taken away from him “against his will”

He KNOWS Natasha is smart.  He knows Selvig is up there, and he knows that he left the scepter in plain sight.

So he was counting on the Avengers to defeat the Chitauri.  If they didn’t he was fucked.

Loki… I think, more than being a diva, knows how to use a situation.  He knows when to make big, grand gestures, but he also knows when to stay behind the scenes.  That’s the whole thing about Loki, he knows how to make a plan and how to move all the chess pieces around.  That’s what Loki’s good at.  So, if a situation calls for him to be a grandstanding diva, he’ll do that.  If it calls for him to manipulate a situation beyond everyone else’s understanding, then he’ll do that instead.

And it’s awfully interesting the way Loki just suddenly seems to change his entire demeanor once the Chitauri are defeated and the portal is closed.  I’ve often toyed with the idea of Loki being controlled by the Chitauri in a way similar to how Loki was controlling Clint, because the whole “cognitive recalibration” thing was certainly made a point of in the movie.  But it never fit as well as this theory does.

The real kicker (for me, at least) in all of this is that LOKI WOULD NEVER SAY ANY OF THIS.  He wouldn’t explain his plan because it’s not like it’s going to get him out of that much more trouble, it’s not like he expects anyone to believe him, and, most importantly, fuck them all, he doesn’t need them, he’s going to do all of this on his own.

Plus, you know.  IF LOKI’S SO SMART WHY WAS HIS PLAN SO DUMB?  (Aside from “Joss Whedon is a terrible writer.”  XD)

OH GODDAMMIT. SERIOUSLY WOMAN. These feels are going to be the death of me. AND THAT THEORY. Holy hell it’s going to take a lot to convince me that that isn’t true.

I would almost feel badly about that, except a) I always give myself an intense case of the Loki Feels and b) by this point I pretty much feel no shame about my need to talk at length and c) SERIOUSLY, THAT THEORY IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES LOKI’S MOTIVATIONS MAKE SENSE TO ME.

I felt that way as soon as I walked out of the theater, I’d been asking the, “Why Midgard?” question all over lj, I’d read about various Xanatos Gambit theories, etc., but that post about Loki and laying it all out like that… just, boom, instantly made a ton more sense to me.  And, sure, sure, it’s Joss Whedon, it doesn’t have to make sense, but I know Tom Hiddleston had a fair amount of imput into the character and so I’m going to work with what’s on the screen.

I fully expect it to get Jossed by Thor 2 (another reason why I’m going to be so curious about who the writer for the movie is and another reason I’m bracing myself to not care so much by 2013.11) but until then?  YOU WOULD HAVE TO WORK SO HARD TO CONVINCE ME THIS ISN’T TRUE.

thescentofwhiteroses:

OH GODDAMMIT WHY IS IT RAINING ON MY FACE.

Ahhhh I just… I just can’t handle my Loki feels.. or how you have the EXACT SAME FEELS AS ME.

I hate it when people play the blame game… it wasn’t anybody’s fault and its just so FUCKING TRAGIC how everything worked out.

But OMG yes! Loki did NOT want to win in the Avengers. I think there were some definite crazy moments when he believed himself but mostly he was lying to himself about what he really wanted.  I mean even in Stuttgard (I think that’s the right name) he knew someone would show up and fight him, he WANTED to get captured.  And I’m fairly certain he could’ve easily magicked himself out of that chamber they locked him in, but he didn’t because he had everything planned out, because damn is he smart.

But before all that… that fucking scene when the Chitauri dude threatens him?  You can tell he already doesn’t want to do this, but he doesn’t see a choice besides to manipulate things in hopes of getting out of the situation even though he doesn’t really seem to believe that it’ll work.  His line to Thor when they’re fighting against each other on Stark tower about how it’s too late to stop it?  He knows he’s going to lose. But he can’t just give up.  I’m sure the Chitauri would have turned on him INSTANTLY if he had just given up.

BUT DAMMIT LOKI YOU LITTLE SHIT.  WHY CAN’T YOU JUST LET THOR LOVE YOU? 

Ugh… he just hates himself so much he can’t understand that anybody could love him.

Okay, I’m not going to be able to get into this discussion without linking to this post on Loki’s motivations in The Avengers, because that’s where I’m coming from re: Loki and how I think he orchestrated the whole thing almost exactly as planned, because otherwise it doesn’t make sense to me.  I think Loki wanted the Avengers to defeat him.  Not on a subconscious level, but in a “I need to get the Chitauri army off my case, hm, let’s see, ah, yes, I’ll get the Avengers to do it for me.”

Because, okay.  I love Tony’s revelatory speech as much as anyone, how he and Loki are so similar, how they like to diva out and all that.  Except, the more I think about it, the more I’m not sure about that.  There’s a gifset going around (let me see… ah, here we go) where Tom Hiddleston talks about Loki’s throwing daggers, how Loki doesn’t want to get his hands dirty, how his way of fighting is quick, efficient, and lethal.  And, okay, you can argue that Loki’s motivation was a big, public defeat so that it would ground down morale and that’s valid.  But I keep thinking of Loki’s fighting style—quick, efficient, lethal.  Kind of the opposite of a spectacle.  So… why is he bringing the Avengers together?

And there’s the question of “Why Midgard?”  You can take Thor’s argument, that he’s there because Thor loves it and Loki wants to take it from him, but I’m not buying that.  If that were the case, he’d have gone after Jane Foster and he never does, not even at the end of the Thor movie.  You can take the argument that he just wants a planet to rule, it doesn’t matter which one, but that just seems so… shallow.

Also, as mentioned in the previous post, so much of what was going on in The Avengers seemed to have deeper meaning, not to mention LOKI IS SMARTER THAN THIS.  (I don’t necessarily think that this is what JMS or Joss Whedon were planning when they wrote the scripts, but this is what makes sense to me.)  So, I think Loki orchestrated (almost) everything the way it was supposed to happen, because there WERE things going on that we were meant to stop and think about.  That entire storyline with the staff, we’re supposed to stop and think about HEY WHAT’S IT DOING TO BRUCE WHY IS THE CAMERA FOCUSING ON IT IN HIS HAND OH HEY IS THAT LOKI’S MANIPULATIONS? (because, yes, that was part of Loki’s plan—unleash the Hulk and bring the Helicarrier crashing down and, oh, hey, how convenient that Thor wasn’t actually in the Helicarrier because Loki made sure he got out, oh, I mean how INconvenient, no, really, just like it was terribly inconvenient that Loki only had a tiny throwing knife that he just barely stuck in Thor’s side and not, like, somewhere that it actually hurt him, terribly, terribly inconvenient, that)

Wait, where was I going again?  Sometimes my feels lead me astray.  My point is that I think Loki is an amazingly complicated character and I love him the most (with Thor a close second because OMG MY THOR FEELS THEY ARE ALMOST AS INTENSE AS MY LOKI FEELS) and Loki has to stick to this plan, because he really needs the Chitauri to GET OFF HIS TRAIL, so he can’t just stop all this, no matter how much Thor begs him, he can’t just TELL Thor, either, because the Chitauri and the Other are WATCHING HIM ALL THE TIME, so he has to just… make sure Thor doesn’t actually get hurt, make sure nobody suspects what he’s doing, and hope like hell he survives.

THE WORST PART IS THAT THIS IS PROBABLY ALL GOING TO GET TOTALLY JOSSED BY THE TIME THOR 2 COMES OUT AND I’M GOING TO CRY BUCKETS BECAUSE THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE TO ME THAN LOKI JUST WENT CRACKERS AND IT’S SO MUCH BETTER BECAUSE NOBODY IS REALLY THE BAD GUY HERE AND THOSE ARE THE BEST STORIES, WHERE I LOVE ALL SIDES.

thescentofwhiteroses:

girlsbydaylight:

iamhemsworthy:

ihearthiddleston:

#THIS. #This moment right here is what I HATE about them. #You can see by Loki’s face in the second one just how many times he’s been through this. #But even after growing up with all of them #and fighting with them #and saving some of their lives #they still laugh at him. #Even when he’s trying to help. #So in that second one he’s wondering if he will ever be accepted #because that’s #ALL #he has wanted. #Not to be all powerful #or rule the kingdom. #He just wants them to look at him and think he’s valuable to them too.

Yeah, but, the Warriors Three are always snarky, and not just to Loki.  And then later on Volstagg even admits that they should all be thanking Loki, that he saved all their lives.  I really don’t think they mean to be malicious, it’s just Loki takes things way too personally.  Which, I understand, because I used to do the same thing.  I’m just saying I don’t think Volstagg had it out for Loki, and that the Warriors Three aren’t as horrid as people make them out to be.

There’s also a cut line in the rest of the script that has Loki snapping, “Get me off this bridge before it cracks under your girth.”  Loki’s a sharp-tongued little shit sometimes!  And I have the Loki Feels as bad as anyone in this fandom, I will defend forever that Loki’s feelings of being seen only as an extension of Thor/being Thor’s shadow came from somewhere, but this scene is not it.  After Thor is banished and things are falling apart, Loki goes to talk to Sif+Warriors Three, talking honestly with them, NOT treating them like they were the horrible bullies that ostracized him always.

Loki is the kind of person who chooses his words carefully, he’s a wordsmith, that means he gives great consideration to them and crafts them perfectly.  This also means that Loki takes others’ words with similar weight more often than he should.  He holds them close and turns them over and over in his head, carrying a slight that was not meant to be as heavy as he makes it.  And maybe more people should have noticed that, maybe Loki couldn’t speak up about it (because, seriously, in a culture like Asgard, who the hell is going to take him seriously when he says words are cutting him too deeply? he would have been patronized as hell for it), but the point is that The Warriors Three and Sif were no more cruel to him than they were to Thor.

Also, seriously, it drives me up the fucking wall when people think that everyone in Asgard was horrible and abusive to poor little Loki.  HE WAS THEIR PRINCE, YOU GUYS.  The younger prince, always in Thor’s shadow, yes, but STILL A GODDAMNED PRINCE.  YOU DON’T FUCK WITH THE HOUSE OF ODIN LIKE THE WAY SOME WOULD SUGGEST SOME PEOPLE WERE HORRIBLE TO LOKI.

Sorry.  I just have a lot of feels on this topic.

AW FUCK.  THERE YOU GO AGAIN READING MY MIND.

GODDAMIT WOMAN YOU ARE THE BEST.

It’s pretty obvious that Loki’s always had self-esteem issues which I couldn’t see him ever confessing to anybody, so of course they wouldn’t realize how personally he was taking things.

And he definitely retaliates normally.  In the deleted pre-coronation scene he turns that goblet of wine (i think it’s wine at least) into snakes just because the servant laughed a little at Thor’s joke.  Then he plays it off as just a bit of fun.  Thor doesn’t react as if this is out of character for Loki, in fact from Thor’s tone of voice you get the idea that Loki does this a lot.  Plays rather nasty pranks on people, especially people who mock him first.  But if he always smiles and says it was just a joke afterwards, how is anyone supposed to know that he’s actually taking everything really really personally?

I don’t think its a stretch to say that Loki doesn’t like to admit to weakness, or have his flaws pointed out.  So it’s not surprising that he would keep all of this to himself.

But girlsbydaylight is probably right that letting people know that he was taking things personally wouldn’t have helped him much in Asgardian society.  It’s all just so unfortunate and frustrating and just… ARGH.

But main point, I think Sif and the Warriors Three were Loki’s friends too, maybe they were more loyal to Thor, but if you see how all of them fight together on Jotunheim… that’s not the way you fight alongside someone you hate or mistrust.

And I agree in general people in Asgard would not have been horrible and abusive to Loki, he can stand up for himself.  Unfortunately his version of standing up for himself probably didn’t help people like him better.

ARGH.  SWEET BABY ICE PRINCE WHY MUST YOU BE SO FRUSTRATING?

Time for more Loki Feels?  ALWAYS TIME FOR MORE LOKI FEELS.

I think Asgard was a really crap place for a kid like Loki to grow up, someone who was way too smart for his own good, someone who gave more weight to words than nearly anyone else (save maybe Odin and that always just hurts me, how very crafty and cunning and smart Odin is, HOW ODIN USES THE SAME SEIDR/MAGIC THAT LOKI DOES, and nobody seems to get, hey, wow, Loki is just as much Odin’s son as Thor is, especially Loki himself) and I don’t think he could have spoken out about it, not in the society he was in.  Maybe if he’d been in a different position, maybe if Thor hadn’t been his brother (yet, at the same time, I think Thor being his brother was the best thing for Loki), maybe he might have turned out differently.

The point is that I don’t blame anyone here.  Thor and Odin and Frigga all love Loki, he’s their son, their brother, their family.  Loki isn’t wrong that he was in Thor’s shadow, that nobody took him seriously.  His friends were willing to commit TREASON to go get Thor back and you can argue that, yes, they were right to do so because Loki was clearly off his fucking rocker at that point, but they still very clearly, with very little resistance chose to treason themselves for Thor, rather than even simply wait for Odin to wake up and deal with this shit.

And I’m sure there were some nasty looks or muttered comments, like in the deleted scene where Loki plays that prank of turning the wine into snakes.  (Which, you’ll also note, even as Thor is giving him shit about it, Thor is laughing, you guys, THOR THINKS LOKI IS HILARIOUS—I also get this from the comics, btw, where one of the reasons Thor brings Loki back is because nobody has ever made him laugh like Loki makes him laugh, and I ascribe the same to the movieverse characters.)  Loki hides all of how that must dig under his skin, so they never realize.  When Volstagg teases him here, Loki’s not actually upset at Volstagg and, even if he were, he wouldn’t make the connection between his mood and Volstagg’s words clear.

They probably would have teased him for being “too sensitive” and they wouldn’t have meant harm by it, but it would have dug under Loki’s skin.  And what was the best he could hope for, if he told them?  They would back off, but they would treat him as more delicate and fragile because of it.  Their society is not one that lends itself to handling people gently.  They’re warriors, they treat everyone roughly.

Which is why I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault.  Loki got dealt a really bad hand in life.  But nobody purposely dealt it to him, it was just that Asgard wasn’t a great place for him as a kid, I suspect.  And that’s even before you add in all the gender fluidity and possible trans* aspects and all the other ways Loki defies stereotypes in Asgard.

Augh, sorry, I just love Loki so much and I have all these feelings for him and how much he hates himself and how much trouble he has accepting that people (especially Thor) still love him and how he’s too smart for his own good sometimes and he really didn’t want to rule, he just wanted everyone to see him as Thor’s equal, but nobody ever will, he’ll always hate himself, so he lets go of Gungnir because, in that moment, oblivion is better than living with this rage and pain anymore, because maybe he’ll have peace now, except there’s no peace there, it’s just more damage and ravaging him until it finally spits him back out at the Chitauri and Thanos, so he’s even worse off, and now everyone will really hate him, maybe even hate him as much as he hates himself, so he’ll be the one they hate, he’ll be Thor’s equal by being the shadow that’s as dark as Thor is bright, except Thor just keeps loving him and wanting him to come home and it’s killing Loki that he can’t just cut Thor out, even as he’s still scheming and you will not convince me EVER that Loki didn’t want the Avengers to rally against him because he wanted the fucking Chitauri off his back, NOTHING HE DID IN THE MOVIE MAKES SENSE UNLESS HE WANTED THAT OUTCOME (aside from getting smashed by the Hulk, that part he could have done without, I suspect) and he’s so smart oh precious baby ice princess just let Thor love you because he loves you SO MUCH.

iamhemsworthy:

ihearthiddleston:

#THIS. #This moment right here is what I HATE about them. #You can see by Loki’s face in the second one just how many times he’s been through this. #But even after growing up with all of them #and fighting with them #and saving some of their lives #they still laugh at him. #Even when he’s trying to help. #So in that second one he’s wondering if he will ever be accepted #because that’s #ALL #he has wanted. #Not to be all powerful #or rule the kingdom. #He just wants them to look at him and think he’s valuable to them too.

Yeah, but, the Warriors Three are always snarky, and not just to Loki.  And then later on Volstagg even admits that they should all be thanking Loki, that he saved all their lives.  I really don’t think they mean to be malicious, it’s just Loki takes things way too personally.  Which, I understand, because I used to do the same thing.  I’m just saying I don’t think Volstagg had it out for Loki, and that the Warriors Three aren’t as horrid as people make them out to be.

There’s also a cut line in the rest of the script that has Loki snapping, “Get me off this bridge before it cracks under your girth.”  Loki’s a sharp-tongued little shit sometimes!  And I have the Loki Feels as bad as anyone in this fandom, I will defend forever that Loki’s feelings of being seen only as an extension of Thor/being Thor’s shadow came from somewhere, but this scene is not it.  After Thor is banished and things are falling apart, Loki goes to talk to Sif+Warriors Three, talking honestly with them, NOT treating them like they were the horrible bullies that ostracized him always.

Loki is the kind of person who chooses his words carefully, he’s a wordsmith, that means he gives great consideration to them and crafts them perfectly.  This also means that Loki takes others’ words with similar weight more often than he should.  He holds them close and turns them over and over in his head, carrying a slight that was not meant to be as heavy as he makes it.  And maybe more people should have noticed that, maybe Loki couldn’t speak up about it (because, seriously, in a culture like Asgard, who the hell is going to take him seriously when he says words are cutting him too deeply? he would have been patronized as hell for it), but the point is that The Warriors Three and Sif were no more cruel to him than they were to Thor.

Also, seriously, it drives me up the fucking wall when people think that everyone in Asgard was horrible and abusive to poor little Loki.  HE WAS THEIR PRINCE, YOU GUYS.  The younger prince, always in Thor’s shadow, yes, but STILL A GODDAMNED PRINCE.  YOU DON’T FUCK WITH THE HOUSE OF ODIN LIKE THE WAY SOME WOULD SUGGEST SOME PEOPLE WERE HORRIBLE TO LOKI.

Sorry.  I just have a lot of feels on this topic.